Dominion Family

Tue 27 Nov 2007

24 Comments

1. How do you reconcile “self-education” with the AO schedule, the idea of narrations, etc. I admit we have tried it for the past 12 weeks and I loved it. The kids loved it, but I felt that we were missing real education. How do you hold someone accountable in this structure?

   I agree! What a great carnival!

   Comment by Tarheel mama (November 27, 2007 @ 7:19 am )

2. Cindy dear, you know I love you but I would really rather be called by my bloggy name–you know, the furry one. Thank you (and thanks for hosting this wild rumpus).

   Comment by Mama Squirrel (November 27, 2007 @ 8:08 am )

3. I will let Dana speak for herself but I think it is giving them the schedule and letting them work out their own salvation with it. I think Donna-Jean did a very rigorous schedule with her oldest while her daughter had autonomy over how it was done but I may be remembering incorrectly.

   If anything happened to me I don’t think it is far-fetched to think that my 2 students doing year 7 could figure out how to do it on their own. As it is I let them know what they need to read each week but they schedule it on their own.

   These are just off the cuff ideas about the concept.

   Comment by Cindy (November 27, 2007 @ 8:09 am )

4. Oops, I almost did that with someone else also.

   Comment by Cindy (November 27, 2007 @ 8:12 am )

5. I’m disappointed I didn’t get to play this week. I read every entry but haven’t had a chance to leave comments yet for “the following”. I have to say, I’m in a dark place with my health right now and frankly stay in a pretty bad mood and I have trouble staying positive. God gives me the strength to put a smile on my face everyday. These CM carnivals have really kept me edified and encouraged since they began. I’m grateful for all the meek spirits who participate.

   Comment by Michal (November 27, 2007 @ 8:24 am )

6. Michal,
   I didn’t know you were sick. I am so sorry. I don’t feel good today and I KNOW it makes me grumpy. I can’t imagine facing anything chronic. I will try to pray for you today as I smile from my own bed.

   Comment by Cindy (November 27, 2007 @ 8:39 am )

7. Thanks, Cindy, that helps a lot. I din’t know if we were talking about letting them read, etc. whatever they wanted or learn at their own pace. Yes, we all get a little stressed when I over-schedule!

   Comment by Tarheel mama (November 27, 2007 @ 8:40 am )

8. Thank you, Cindy. It looks like there are some good things here. I’ll be back later when I have more time. I hope you are soon feeling better. Maybe you’ll have time for a little reading.

   Comment by Laura (November 27, 2007 @ 8:51 am )

9. THANKS for letting us know about Noelle!! I blogged about it this morning. I appreciate you spreading the word.

   Thank you for the great post this morning. I gleaned so much — the Nature Handbook — it’s on my shelf gathering dust… no more… I was inspired by Barb’s blog… added IT to my google reader.

   THANKS again!!

   Comment by ~*~ Jennifer ~*~ (November 27, 2007 @ 9:04 am )

10. What a great carnival, yet again :)I got a good chuckle out of the “CM Blog Mama” title. Lovely If it makes you feel any better, I usually take the entire two weeks to read the whole carnival! I’m never sorry to have read through all of the posts.

    Blessings,
    Jacci

    Comment by JacciM (November 27, 2007 @ 9:17 am )

11. [...] Cindy is hosting the Charlotte Mason Carnival. Get some pointers on establishing the habit of listening to Classical music, Charlotte Mason beginnings and handwriting, just for starters. [...]

    Pingback by The Genial Hearth » Carnivals Again (November 27, 2007 @ 9:38 am )

12. Thank you for your wonderful comments on each post, and for your work in putting together this carnival. I’m off on music lessons, but I look forward to sitting later, laptop in lap, tea cup in hand, and reading them all.

    God bless, and thanks again!

    Comment by Donna-Jean (November 27, 2007 @ 10:28 am )

13. You done good!!

    Regarding self-education, I gained something very helpful from a homeschool book that I actually really didn’t like and mostly disagreed with. But the one thing I did agree with has really stayed with me, and it makes so much sense.

    The one doing the research and making the connections is the one doing the learning. So when Mom does all this background reading and puts together this involved unit study making all kinds of connections- she’s the one doing the learning. When Mom does some background prep that she can pass on to the kids, but the kids do the reading and they are allowed to make their own connections- THEY are the ones doing the learning.
    Narration is self-education because the narrators are the ones processing the information and pulling out the pieces and putting them together. When mom writes a test, she’s the one doing that (less true for essay tests).

    Does that make sense?

    Comment by DeputyHeadmistress (November 27, 2007 @ 10:44 am )

14. I just finished reading The Spoiled Child chapter of IHC and all I can think about is that I am such a sloppy thinker.

    This is why I am always saying that teaching isn’t learning. The narrations example is perfect!

    I guess it is easy for the homeschooling mom who is learning along with her children not to realize when she is doing all the real work.

    Comment by Cindy (November 27, 2007 @ 10:56 am )

15. I’ll just put in my two cents about self-education. The link in this post I immediately clicked on was Dana’s because my children were self-educated from about 4th grade on. Our experience was much like that of Dana’s and her college daughter. My children have absolutely excelled in college (I could tell lots of stories about this), and I’m convinced (and so are they) that it has everything to do with their self-education.

    I’ve struggled to find a label that works for us. Christian Unschooling? Well, in some ways that actually worked, except that I had serious and specific educational expectations (almost never assignments) for my kids, and there was direct oversight by, and accountability to, me for what was being done educationally. But my children mostly had freedom in figuring out what they’d use and how they’d learn a thing. I can’t explain in a few lines how well this worked, but I should say that they went so far above and beyond what I would have assigned (even if I was attempting to make the education rigorous) that I was assured all along the way that this was a good path.

    The kids were and are disciplined. This has a lot to do with the kind of lifestyle, atmosphere, routine, expectations, and boundaries/parameters parents set up (and whether or not there is a deliberate aim– which takes a different kind of hard work on the part of the parent– to keep this lifestyle going on a daily basis). The kids loved, and love, to learn. (Even in the midst of college, they keep reading on their own and pursuing what interests them, on the side.) This has to do with being allowed to *really* learn (and I do agree that all real education is essentially self-education, in one way or another; the best kind of learning comes from mostly from curiosity, but there is a place for fulfilling expectations, too). The kids saw us as having authority in their lives and over their educations.

    Also, my children were not limited or dumbed down by me. They are smarter than me, better writers, better thinkers, far better educated… I’m learning, too, but I’m behind them intellectually in most ways. I’m older, though, so there are things I know that they don’t yet comprehend. That’s why I gave oversight; that’s why I made rules and set parameters. And my husband and I were the parents, with God-given authority and responsibility for their upbringing, and we took this very seriously. We didn’t get confused about who was in charge of the household!

    There’s no way I’m going to explain myself well at all in this short comment, and I won’t try. I just want to say that I’m very pleased at the results we’ve had from this way of learning. I think my kids are very sharp, deep, creative (in a good way), and have full confidence that they can learn *anything* they want to learn. They are undaunted! And they think in an orderly, logical way. A daughter’s honors professor guessed that she’d had rigorous training in logic. She hadn’t, but she had learned to think and argue and discuss really well (I attribute this partly to the wide, deep reading and thinking that happens with self-education).

    AND, I want to add that my biggest influence in our early years was Susan Schaeffer Macaulay’s book and then subsequent CM books and writings (including the original CM writings). Narration– we had our own way of doing this (and CM may not have fully approved, but it worked well for us!). Nature studies– a biggie for us. Lots of free play. Being outdoors. Conversation. Living books. Ideas. Great art and music. Real things. Reading. Writing. Doing. Wondering. Paying attention. Exploration. It was a nice life, I must say!

    When I talk with new homeschoolers, I always point them to Charlotte Mason. And yet, a strict CM follower, would probably flinch at the way we’ve used her ideas.

    Oh, well, I have to sign off, and I’ve only half explained myself… and not well at all…

    Susan

    Comment by Susan L (November 27, 2007 @ 11:28 am )

16. You did a wonderful job here!
    Now, to etch out a piece of time to read through all of these!

    Comment by keri (November 27, 2007 @ 12:40 pm )

17. Susan L - I love the way you describe your homeschool and self education. I am very encouraged to hear your older students success (and I suspect their success is greater than doing well at College!) as we have a student probably bound for college in a few years. You wonder about the title Christian unschooling - the word I use is Discipleship and you put into words these ideas very well. Thank you for your thoughts.
    Belinda

    Comment by Belinda Letchford (November 27, 2007 @ 3:22 pm )

18. Susan,
    I am constantly stymied by my inability to say things without implying other things on the Internet. So I understand your frustration. I agree with Belinda; I love hearing stories like yours.

    Comment by Cindy (November 27, 2007 @ 3:45 pm )

19. Susan, do you have a blog??? If you do, I’m at http://theeducationallife.blogspot.com

    Cindy, I’ve read half of the posts today! I never read that many on the first day I took all of naptime to do it (so I didn’t rest myself), but I’m so encouraged by what I have read. The CM Carnival has been even more of a blessing to me than I thought it would be. Thanks so much for hosting this edition

    Comment by JacciM (November 27, 2007 @ 4:37 pm )

20. Susan L., thanks for sharing. I wish you had a blog! I think every time you have posted here, I have been blessed.

    Comment by Laura (November 27, 2007 @ 5:32 pm )

21. Thank you so much for putting together this edition of the carnival. I am enjoying reading the entries one by one. There is so much to learn and I am inspired by what I have read so far. Every year I seem to implement one more aspect of CMs ideas and our days keep getting better and better.

    Thanks again,
    Barb-Harmony Art Mom

    Comment by Barb (November 27, 2007 @ 6:28 pm )

22. Belinda, thank you. I had fun doing a quick perusal of your webpage. Very nice! I’ll go back to read a lot more when I have time. And, yes, discipleship is a good word for what we do, isn’t it?

    Jacci, I don’t have a blog, but I *might* start one in January. My girls and I are talking about doing a blog (they’d have to help me because I’m worthless on the computer)… I’m still not sure if I have what it takes to blog, but we might give it a try. If we do, I’ll stop by and say hello. I really enjoyed looking at your blog, too.

    Laura, you are sweet. Thank you.

    And Cindy, I don’t mean to “use” your blog for my own ideas. Sorry for that. This is one reason I might start a blog of my/our own, even though alot of it would be geared mostly to the everyday life that we live (plus some things I’ve written over the years for homeschoolers). It would be for friends and family and my homeschool friends (especially for the ladies who were part of the support group in my home for nine years– since they’re the ones who push me hardest to do this).

    Also, Cindy, I think you communicate exceptionally well. I’m often amazed at how easily and concisely you communicate deep, important ideas (and you always do it with good humor and a smile). It’s just that no matter how you say a thing– however clearly, however well– people read with their own biases and presuppositions and level of understanding of a thing (that’s not to be critical– we all do it). Personality comes into play, too. I’m just glad you’re here.

    Susan

    Comment by Susan L (November 27, 2007 @ 9:46 pm )

23. What a great carnival! I enjoyed all the posts so much. (Except the link to the DHM didn’t go to the Montessori/Mason post–but I enjoyed catching up with her, anyway!)

    And thank you for linking to our Advent carnival!

    Jeanne

    Comment by At A Hen's Pace (November 29, 2007 @ 1:36 am )

24. Sorry to come into the conversation after it seems to be over. But I just wanted to point out that “self-education” really is sort of what we are all striving for, I think. We want for our children to be able to find information, form ideas and present their research in a meaningful way on their own, without their parent, by the time they leave the home.

    I don’t want it to appear as if my daughter is wholly independent, that I only give her assignments and leave her to figure it out. She isn’t fully independent, and she does narrations with me, reads with me and all of that sort of thing. But she has taken more responsibility for her end of it, and has begun to approach other subjects with the format for study we have been doing.

    She is a strong-willed independent little girl and this has caused problems of its own.

    I enjoyed the conversation, but wanted to make sure that my little girl isn’t fully independent, nor do I expect her to be. I try not to predigest the material for her which is more automatic than one might at first realize.

    She has mostly just taken responsibility for her schedule, and certainly isn’t learning alone in isolation!

    Comment by Dana (December 18, 2007 @ 11:24 am )

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