Sat 10 Feb 2007
So I flippantly said that I believed that homeschooling still had the advantage over classical Christian schools and a rude person asked me why
?
I am tempted to answer: because. Or better yet: because I said so.
The last few days I have been pondering why I do truly believe that and I am going to begin to answer the question in this post. I don’t anticipate getting to the heart of the matter in this post but perhaps we can keep it on the table for a while.
I am going to be discussing this issue from my perspective, from the schools I have been around and the criticisms I have heard aimed at homeschooling. In some sense I believe this will deteriorate into a straw man but that can’t be helped. I will be speaking in generalizations because, frankly, if I don’t we won’t get anywhere at all. All picky eaters should now vacate the building.
There are many, many circumstances that would cause me to be very thankful for a local Christian school, classical or otherwise. I will not be discussing those circumstances. If you have made the choice to put your children in an institutional school for one reason or another, I am not here to judge you or condemn you.
It occurs to me that one of the main arguments for starting community schools is that they are efficient. Why have 20 moms teaching Latin when one teacher will do? I personally believe the efficiency argument will not hold up because if we are going to argue for efficiency we will have to start arguing against the classical model altogether. Many classical educators espouse agrarianism because it speaks their language. Efficiency is the destructive god of our day not the key to the hearts and minds of students in the classical model. This very efficiency is what makes the school setting unyielding. Contemplation is lost among the wheels of efficiency.
The truth be told, and I have told it often, almost all classical schools I have been around are just somebody else’s mother teaching the kids. While many classical educators argue against children being with their own moms all day long, they have substituted a system that is vastly inferior. They take women out of their homes and spheres to teach each other’s children in a institutional setting. I think the problem here is that many of the men who start classical schools are visionary. They don’t intend for their school to be run by moms but that is just the way these things pan out. In the meantime they have created a system that is hard to change.
And that leads me to my next point. Home schools are small and adaptable. I can change the focus of the vision for my school tomorrow morning. As soon as a school becomes an institution it loses this ability to change and adapt. Many a classical school administrator is looking out the window wondering how such a lovely model turned into 6 subjects and lunch. Yet, how does he change that? If he changes things too quickly he will lose his financial base which is already paltry, which is why he has so many moms teaching which is…..
As long as the classical model is struggling for definition, home schools will have the advantage.
This leads me to the next point. What is a classical education? I believe a truly classical school would teach Latin, Greek and Mathematics. There would be absolutely no need for this sort of school before 5th grade at least. The classical schools with which I am familiar are still busy teaching numerous subjects all day long. Give me a school teaching only Latin, Greek and Mathematics before lunch each day and working on a farm operation after lunch and I would be tempted to enroll my sons. As it is the only way I have for my sons to learn hard work out in the weather is to keep them away from the time consuming institutional school. Homeschooling is the only option the provides the flexibility to pursue the truly classical. The true classical education should be rigorous and liberating.
I think homeschooling is vastly superior in the grammar stage. Especially while there are people defining grammar as singing silly songs and memorizing dates. I want my grammar-aged students memorizing Robert Louis Stevenson and hearing Andrew Lang’s Fairy Tales. I want them exploring the world around them not reading about it from a 2nd grade science text.
I have not yet begun to fight.
I have at least one more area I want to discuss which is mentoring and discipleship but I will hold off on that until later.
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Wow! I am so glad that I checked in on a Saturday morning - thank you for that!! Jen
Comment by Jen (February 10, 2007 @ 10:17 am )
Generalizations are good. (And I’ll eat anything!) Great post - I enjoyed it very much.
Comment by Laura D. (February 10, 2007 @ 11:37 am )
Great post!
I have proof homeschooling is better…my son.
We’re just no beginning Latin because of um…issues…with math.
However, because we homeschool we can start it at any time.
Since we began this journey in second grade, taking him out of the public schools because of the way they were treating severe ADHD (as in, drugging him senseless), he and I have had many opportunities to contemplate what he would be like if he had stayed in the public school system.
The thought makes both of us shudder.
Homeschooling has been challenging many times but the joy, not to mention the great relationship we have with our son, has been wonderful.
I wish I had homeschooled my daughter (who was twelve when her brother was born). God’s sense of humor.
Comment by Brenda N (February 10, 2007 @ 12:38 pm )
excellent post, Cindy! Very insightful and a point I had not considered (although, because I said so is a very valid argument. :))
I’ll be linking to this post.
Kathy
Comment by Kathy In VA (February 10, 2007 @ 12:44 pm )
You pointed out that you’d be pleased with a school that would teach subjects such as Latin, Greek, and Mathematics in the morning while allowing for the older boys to be doing other things in the afternoon. Why must we then even have a full-time day school? This can be taken care of a few mornings per week in a “co-op” type school, allowing the children to come home to do reading, outside work (especially outside work!), play, sports, music, art, Nature study, etc. We have this type of school in our area and utilized it for two years for our then junior high-aged boys. The problem that usually arises in this type of setting (and I am not saying I agree with the argument) is that the headmaster of said school is concerned that a TRUE CLASSICAL education is not happening at home during the other hours, so he little by little starts working toward a full-time day school. At least that is what happened in our case.
I completely agree that I’d rather have my grammar school-aged kiddos memorizing Stevenson, hearing fairy tales and good literature, singing Psalms and hymns with the rest of the family and such. These are times that will always be remembered as good family times in addition to the learning that takes place. And they grow up and are gone SO quickly! (Sorry to get sentimental on you.)
Comment by Linda (February 10, 2007 @ 2:35 pm )
Dear Cindy,
So glad to see this on your blog. I love your thoughts and it strengthens my resolve. Perhaps we will meet at the next Circe. I live in Charlotte.
Laura
Comment by Laura (February 10, 2007 @ 2:55 pm )
Just talking with folks at a certain school I know and that is the model(teaching mom’s,etc.) that they and so many christian schools are stuck in -it causes a real stifling of real fruitful education—Thanks for bringing this up so we may say this to somewhocares. So many areas to consider but foundationally, our culture does not believe there is intrinsic value in life-at-home. I am believing it for our culture (and the church.) Education is a subset of Life… a result of living…not an end.
Love,K Hi Linda!
Comment by karen (February 10, 2007 @ 3:00 pm )
Good post, Cindy. We’ve never completely ruled out the idea of putting our kids in school, but I’ve never yet seen a school I’d put my kids into. The school like you described is similar to my idea of what would make a good school. I’d only add that I think schools should be single sex rather than mixed.

Comment by Kelly (February 10, 2007 @ 3:44 pm )
We were part of a start up classical Christain school. It lasted for 3 years. Our children received an excellent classical education but you’re right Cindy, they were taught by mostly other moms. Our headmaster was a man who held a full time fire captian job plus resposibilities at his church. It was just too much!! Not only did he run the entire school, he taught many classes. The big problem in wanting men to teach is that the start up school cannot afford to pay them what they are worth and what they need to provide for their family. It’s a viscious cycle…so the moms teach. And eventually it becomes a coop of mothers dragging their little children around wearing themselves thin and paying an absolute fortune for the classical education. I have to admit that our friends/mothers did an outstanding job. Each one was an ameteur/expert
in their subject. The school will not reopen unless there is a huge finacial donation and a male administrator steps forward.
I think your post is great and I, for one, appreciate your gracious tone, especially since 4 of my children entered a tradition Christian school this fall.
Comment by Janet (February 10, 2007 @ 4:45 pm )
Give me a school teaching only Latin, Greek and Mathematics before lunch each day and working on a farm operation after lunch and I would be tempted to enroll my sons…
We have farm work for after lunch. And four boys to help with that. Shall we share the Latin, Greek and Math, Cindy? ~warm smile, wink~
Thank you, Cindy…
All’s grace,
Ann V.
Comment by Ann V. @ Holy Experience (February 10, 2007 @ 5:22 pm )
Cindy,
This was so nice to read before beginning my school planning/learning this afternoon. It can get so overwhelming to raise, mother, school our 7 children. I feel encouraged.
I find it very efficient for one mom to learn Latin(or Grammar or _____) and teach 7 children. Then as life happens she can ask children the Latin root of that unfamiliar word that came up in their read aloud, she can point out during the grammar lesson that ____is very similar to the use of _____ in Latin, she can help a child learn to spell bellicose by telling him that the word is of Latin origin, she can cut short the English grammar lessons because something was already covered in Latin.
One mom learning for herself and teaching/learning with her children means that any time of day she can make connections between all that the child is learning. I think for the child that is efficient.
Kendall
Comment by Kendall (February 10, 2007 @ 5:45 pm )
“Because” works for me, but I do appreciate what you’re saying here and I’m looking forward to your thoughts on mentoring and discipleship.
::Give me a school teaching only Latin, Greek and Mathematics before lunch each day and working on a farm operation after lunch and I would be tempted to enroll my sons.::
We’re ranchers, but our Greek & Latin is lacking. I guess we’re more “countrified than classical.”
~Jody
Comment by Jody (February 10, 2007 @ 6:26 pm )
Well a very basic answer would be that a Christian school has all the same basic issues as institutional schooling has, in general. Magnet schools who teach in alternative ways have issues. Catholic schools have issues. The root of the problem is schooling in groups in general. Period.
I think that if a person only sees a problem with a public school being that it is not Christian-centered is not seeing the much larger, bigger picture.
A couple of examples: peer dependence is in all schools, bullying is in all schools, cliques are in all schools. Those are due to large groups of children being together with a low adult to child ratio.
Comment by ChristineMM (February 10, 2007 @ 6:56 pm )
Kendall, I love the illustration!
Christine, This is true, almost any argument will work across the board. The reason I put it in these terms is that I am not tempted to put my kids in public school but there is the temptation to think that a classical, Christian school is doing a better job. The sad fact is that peer dependency is a real problem at these schools especially when the kids involved are already from wealthy homes which is often the case.
Comment by Cindy (February 10, 2007 @ 7:01 pm )
“Contemplation is lost among the wheels of efficiency.”
That’s a *huge* one for me! It can happen in homeschools, too. Lost among the wheels of supposed rigor or busyness or a jam-packed school day or overstimulation or myriad other things…
Farmwork in the afternoons, though, well that’s a great opportunity for contemplation! (I like Eric Brende’s thoughts on this in Better Off!.)
Just because you made me think of it, did you know there’s an all-male agrarian college in remote California that is a working ranch? (Deep Springs College– a 2yr program.) There is a limit of 26 students, and they must be “very smart and very motivated” because, “like labor, self-governance is a cornerstone of the college.” The curriculum is reportedly one of the toughest anywhere, and the New York Times calls it one of the most selective and innovative colleges in the world. Students are responsible for running the entire ranch operation while they study. Tuition, room, and board are absolutely free.
Not a Christian school. If you’re curious, though, you can read more at “www.deepsprings.edu”. It’s very interesting!
There’s lots more fascinating and impressive information about this college (and other unique schools) in the book *Cool Colleges for the Hyper-Intelligent, Self-Directed, Late Blooming, and Just Plain Different.* Love that book!
Susan L
Comment by Susan L (February 10, 2007 @ 9:16 pm )
I believe there are pros and cons to homeschooling as well as sending your children down the road to a good Christian school. We tried the classical Christian School thing after caving into the pressure from Steve Schlissel’s “The End of Homeschooling” article as well as other such friendly advise. For our family it didn’t work, but I know other godly families that truly loved it. I don’t believe God has the same blueprint for every family. Because I am not enthusiastic about the school down the street, it may very well be the will of God for my sister next to me in the pew and I want to be supportive and helpful to her in her race. What I am tired of are elders in the church of God, men who ought to know better, who are constantly using a shotgun aimed at a crowd of homeschoolers instead of a rifle. If there have been fools in the homeschooling arena (yeah like we haven’t known a few) then take aim as a sniper, don’t use a serrated edge on all homeschooling moms.
Sue
Comment by Sue (February 10, 2007 @ 11:21 pm )
Sue,
That is really my point exactly. I am not against families making individual choices based on their own needs but I am very defensive for homeschoolers in general. I can’t begin to tell you how angry Mr Schlissel’s article made me. It has been a good long while since I read it and I don’t even remember what he said but I do remember it got my blood pressure up.
Lately it seems that it has become popular to point out the failings of homeschooling and I do believe homeschoolers should take an honest look at our weaknesses, I just resent the fact that some of the criticism has come from people with ulterior motives and with their own agendas.
These people cater to the insecurities of homeschooling moms and I want to be the person who builds up the homeschooling mom. It’s a jungle out there
Comment by Cindy (February 11, 2007 @ 12:37 am )
This is the first time I have ever posted anything on the net and will probably be my last. I have to tell you that your last two posts were wonderful. The one about Parnassus has kept me chuckling and the last one I agree with wholeheartedly.You and I could be soul sisters…. BTW, I love the part of the country you are in and I miss it terribly.
Sharyn
Comment by Sharyn (February 11, 2007 @ 9:03 am )
Sue spoke of pastors “taking aim” at the homeschoolers in the congregation. I’m sure Cindy and Karen both recall instances where our previous pastor would make comments from the pulpit about his “classical school” scholars. He would ask a rhetorical doctrinal question and add, “I’m sure the students in my doctrine class at *** school know the answer to that!” Those of us who home educated would either shift nervously in our pews or seethe inwardly, whether our children knew the answer to the question or not! While he never specifically said all students should be in “his” school, it was made clear that “his” students were superior.
Comment by Linda (February 11, 2007 @ 10:55 am )
Until homeschooling came back in vogue again, right, Linda? Some of us just keep plodding away no matter what happens to be the “it” thing
Plodders of the world unite!
Comment by Cindy (February 11, 2007 @ 2:52 pm )
Cindy, the bios of most of the staff who work at this classical school in Oklahoma gives credibility to your theory:
http://www.providencehall.org/content.asp?page=18
Placing active boys into such a female-dominated, sit-still, all-day-long culture can’t be healthy, from a developmental point of view, even if they are learning “robust” subjects like Latin and grammar.
Comment by Izzy (February 11, 2007 @ 6:07 pm )
Great points, all! The private school model is nearly as outmoded as the public school.
I’ve just got to ask one question.
What is this obsession with farm work? I understand the value of engaging our young men in hard labor, but wouldn’t it be also productive to have our boys apprentice under web designers, engineers, or other cutting-edge professions? Homeschoolers seem to idealize the quiet, contemplative life of the farmer, but perhaps we are doing our children a disservice in not exposing them to more technologically-advanced career paths?
Comment by Mimi Rothschild (February 12, 2007 @ 9:44 am )
Dear Sharyn,
So glad you came out of lurkdom to comment. Please don’t wait too long to pop out again.
Mimi,
Well, the reason I use the example of farm work is that it is physical. I would not substitute something non-physical in the afternoon for something physical for boys. I don’t have a problem with technological careers for boys but I do have a problem with young men spending their free time playing computer games etc. This seems to me what happens more often. A technologically-bent boy needs to learn to use his muscles. This is a major problem in my opinion. Too many boys are indoors too much. It is especially not good for their hormone balance. If we shun sports we need to make sure we are replacing them with other muscular efforts.
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 9:53 am )
Ah, good point. I do see the need for physical exercise. However, I think that’s important for girls too.
I guess I see things from the opposite end. There are countless kids that grow up as high school football stars that don’t know how to use a computer. This can be a major impediment to their development. I think our priorities as a society should shift more towards the mental and less towards the physical. You seem to have the right mindset though, so no argument.
Comment by Mimi Rothschild (February 12, 2007 @ 10:02 am )
Mimi,
You will have to forgive me for leaving out girls. I have 8 sons. I do have a daughter but I just think in terms of boys. Certainly our society is unbalanced in its view of sports and definitely anti-intellectual. Unfortunately homeschoolers have forgotten that physical activity goes a long way in solving issues involving teens. Baseball is the sport for the intelligent,classical child
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 10:09 am )
Mimi and Cindy,
I think you girls are not quite seeing the whole picture with boys and physical labor. Maybe you are and I’m not connecting the dots, but to me it’s not just physical activities and using their muscles. I was very athletic as a teenager playing at least 4 sports. I remember that my mother had hinted once about me getting a job at Winn Dixie but then she quickly said that I may as well play sports while I can, because when I start working I’ll be working the rest of my life. At 46 years old, and with 9 children of my own, I still have a hard time not thinking that I should take the summers off. Not to disparage mental exercise, but a balance of physical discipline with responsibility will help stimulate their mental prowess.
Comment by Tim (February 12, 2007 @ 1:43 pm )
Only the rare parent is an expert at everything. Some are better at math and others are better at languages. Some children need help with reading and spelling development, being natural scientists rather than wordsmiths. (Those children, apparently, are unsuitable for Classical education, in that your definition excludes the sciences.)
We create cooperative schools, hiring those gifted in teaching to train one anothers’ children in language, math, science and the arts. There is no need for a farming education in an urban area of a million plus. (Why not military sciences if you need physical activity? or classical olympic activities?)
Home schooling is effective when parents’ schedules are fluid, and when there are no appropriate schools. But in locations of sufficient population, effective classical schools are to my mind the preferred solution.
Comment by Mike (February 12, 2007 @ 3:14 pm )
Thanks for commenting, Mike. One of the things I am trying to combat in this post is the criticism of homeschooling that says that homeschooling parents are arrogant to think they can teach every subject. The other thing I am fighting, so to speak, is the faulty definition of classical education that most schools operate under. 7 subjects and Latin does not a classical school make. You use the term effective. What does that mean to you? What does that look like? How much do you pay your teachers? Are they mostly female? Do you have physical activity of any kind at your school? What?
In order to enjoy the benefits of a classical school I would have to give up several benefits that I believe are priorities. In other words, I am happy there are talented people starting classical schools for those that find themselves in a situation where a quality school is needful, the death of a parent comes to mind, but from my perspective, I still think that homeschooling offers all the benefits of what would be a traditional classical education along with many other perks that the institutional school hinders.
I don’t say all of this from an isolated position. I have been around classical christian schools and the products thereof. As of yet I don’t think homeschoolers need to feel threatened.
It is frustrating for homeschooling parents who live within the area of one of the schools to feel pressure to join the school. The school almost always begins to exert this pressure within a church setting. For a long time, we as homeschoolers have been rather defenseless against these sorts of pressures.
For those of us seeking flexibilty and a wide, liberal base, homeschooling is still the best option.
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 3:29 pm )
I would like to elaborate a little bit on this whole idea that homeschooling parents can’t possibly be good in every subject because it seems so logical to the people who say it. Do we compare SAT scores? If our scores are compatible to the school’s scores are we still open to this charge? Or does this question show a basic misunderstanding about the nature of learning that is prominent among people who have something to gain by the demise of homeschooling? Once this question is thrown on the table it becomes very difficult to communicate. Suddenly we are talking about 2 entirely different philosophies of education that are essentially incompatible.
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 3:44 pm )
Congratulations, Cindy! You’ve inspired the first thoughtful blog post I’ve come up with in over a month.
I started to comment on Saturday, decided my comment was much too long, tried to put it on my blog instead, lost it, gave it up, and then couldn’t stop rewriting it in my head. So I came back to it today. (For anyone who goes over to my blog to read it and wonders where I’m coming from, I am a homeschooling mother married to a passionate and dedicated teacher with a PhD in ancient Greek.)
I also note that the “ideal” school in the comments here looks an awful lot like Atlas. (Except that you didn’t mention Hebrew.)
Comment by Sora (February 12, 2007 @ 6:36 pm )
I am very proud of myself, Sora, for pulling you out of your blogging stupor. I loved the Atlas link. It is great to see a real break from the same old. Looked like a miniature British school. I can imagine a little CS Lewis sitting there.
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 8:57 pm )
Cindy,
Ours is a small school of 80 in a region crowded with underperforming public schools and a plethora of Christian schools (many merely public with Bible). No we don’t pay a living wage; it’s more than the minimum, but not much more than poverty level if trying to support a family. And because of pay, we currently have no men teaching.
We follow the Logos Trivium and are in constant revision for self-assessment of how “classical” we really are. I have spent quite a few hours not only on the board but also checking my children’s homework, until about 6th grade, where they surpass my level of education (I have a Masters in Public Administration, but am weak on math and languages). The physical activity is organized PE plus organized sports in league with other small private schools.
As for the “competition” with homeschoolers, the school was originally founded by homeschoolers at the church, but most are fiercely independent, and pulled their students back. For the rest of us, already pulled a dozen ways with membership in a different church and mid-career limitations, the school is ideal. I will also mention that a sizeable number of families are military-related, where homeschooling is sometimes not an option.
Homeschooling has its place, but it is not the panacea for all learners, nor for all parents. Organized Classical schooling - in my mind - is the most acceptable alternative.
Comment by Mike (February 12, 2007 @ 9:16 pm )
I appreciate your thoughts, Mike, and your honesty ! I think my son, who was in the Navy knows a few of your former students and will be visiting this summer to attend a wedding.
I totally agree that homeschooling is not a panacea.
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 10:06 pm )
Mike,
I did just want to take a minute to defend the “fiercely independent” homeschoolers. I was once in a church where everyone homeschooled until a classical school was started. Then suddenly the families who found the school unwieldy or expensive or just not practical were labeled as uncooperative. This went on for several years until one of the founders of the school found himself back once again as a homeschooler. Suddenly it was in vogue to homeschool once again. For those of us who had continued homeschooling through years of outward pressure to join the school, it felt a little odd.
Let me say that I was not in the church during all those years but I was familiar with what was going on for most of them.
It smacks just a little of duplicity for a classical school to call homeschoolers fiercely independent. It used to be you would be hard pressed to find a homeschooler who wasn’t fiercely independent. How does a homeschooling family communicate that while they are fine with you starting a school they don’t want to join it, not because they are just so arrogant but just because that is not what God has called their family to do?
Comment by Cindy (February 12, 2007 @ 10:53 pm )
Mike, you may not realize this but some of Cindy’s readers are more than a little familiar with the school and church you’re writing about. We were members there in the years that my husband was stationed at Langley AFB.
Comment by Kelly (February 13, 2007 @ 5:01 pm )
Alright, I know I’m three days late and probably nobody but Cindy is reading this right now (which is fine), but I am confused about this statement of Mike’s:
My husband retired after 20 years in the Air Force (the World’s Greatest Air Force, he would like me to say), and we found homeschooling a distinct advantage. Moving every 2-5 years makes for a difficult transition if you have to change schools every time. We have a lot of military friends who found the same thing to be true. In fact, though we also knew a lot of military folks who didn’t homeschool, I can’t ever recall any of them saying homeschooling would not be an option *because* of the military. The only reason I can think of that military service would not compatible with homeschooling is if both parents or a single parent were active duty and subject to deployment. We homeschooled in Japan, and we’ve known homeschoolers in every country where the Air Force allowed family members to accompany the active duty member. I’ve homeschooled alone while my husband was deployed to Saudi (and dozens of other places) Another advantage to our homeschooling in the military was the flexible schedule for us. For a couple of years my husband was the only one of his squadron and workshift who saw his schoolaged children on weekdays. Other parents were getting home from work when their kids had just left for school and were leaving for work just before the kids got home.
I’m not one familiar with the school and church you mention, but one of the families we consider our closest friends was a major at the Pentagon and his wife homeschooled their large family as well.
That’s not to boast (my husband was enlisted, and we homeschooled and supported our large family for 20 years on his paycheck), just to explain my bewilderment about what it is about military connections that would complicate homeschooling?
Comment by DeputyHeadmistress (February 16, 2007 @ 12:04 pm )
DHM,
I am still reading. As a matter of fact I wanted to address this issue also but I plan for part 3 in the series dealing with financial issues. But anyway I thought it was odd that Mike would think that homeschooling was not a good option for military families because very often it is the only good option. We live near an army base and many, many military families homeschool. We have friends with at least 12 children (I lost count) who are a longtime army family and superb homeschoolers.
Comment by Cindy (February 16, 2007 @ 12:42 pm )
Oh, and I should have mentioned in my comment above, that we homeschooled our seven children from the very beginning, also on a single paycheck from my enlisted husband. I expect this places us among the fiercely independent, since we’ve never had our kids in any school, though in the early years we considered a few, including Calvary.
(I’m still reading, too, DHM, and am always thankful for your perspective!)
Comment by Kelly (February 16, 2007 @ 3:06 pm )
It’s been fun being the lighting rod for such vitriol. Did I say “all military families”? Did I say “all homeschoolers”? I entered this discussion out of a desire for dialogue.
I spoke of one school in one location that is working through the process of keeping themselves ever more “classical” in the face of the tendency to drift into the familiar. THIS school was started by a mix of families that included homeschoolers who ceased being comfortable with a work in progress.
I spoke of dual-military families, of single parent military, and of the reservist homeschooling parent who was activated and needed a quality alternative. As one who has spent 25 years with the Air Force - without the military benefits of schools, commissary, housing allowances or BXs(except for my time OCONUS) - I understand the value of being able to homeschool in locations with atrocious or Godless schools (yes, I also lived in Massachusetts). Especially on junior enlisted salaries.
And I consider independence of thought an admirable characteristic. But some homeschooling parents do so with a tone of spite and isolation against anyone who would deign to impose a traditional school environment on their kids.
Enough defense. If we want to talk about Classical education, I’ll continue. If not, I have a school to care for, and it needs my attention.
Comment by Mike (February 16, 2007 @ 8:21 pm )
Mike,
Honest, I don’t see the vitriol. It is just as homeschoolers we often hear these sorts of things and we honestly don’t see it. I know families who are isolationist but I know far more families who are not. It takes a certain amount of gall to homeschool in the first place but for those of us who have lived near classical or Christian schools, it sometimes seems like there is a lot of misplaced pressure to join the school.
I appreciate your sticking with the conversation. I doubt we will get to the bottom of the issue or the heart of it but I do appreciate the dialog.
Comment by Cindy (February 16, 2007 @ 9:04 pm )
For what it’s worth, we put the same pressure on everybody, homeschoolers, parent of public school children, those from other Christian schools. Doesn’t matter. We firmly believe in our school, and want to tell everyone about it. (If I didn’t believe in the school, I wouldn’t still be on the board even after my own children have graduated out to another school.)
If it’s a conscious decision that homeschooling is the most appropriate education for a particular child, even if my other children receive more formalized schooling. That’s one thing. But we sometimes get defensive (even hurt feelings) when our good friends turn “no school is better than this school” around to “it’s better to be in no school than to be in this school.”
To me, it’s not about one style over another, but having the courage and insight to provide the most appropriate education for my children, even at great personal expense.
Comment by Mike (February 16, 2007 @ 9:23 pm )
Vitriol? I’m astonished at that accusation, and I have no idea what I or anybody else said to deserve that sort of attack.
You said a sizable number of families were ‘military related, where homeschooling is sometimes not an option,’ and I couldn’t figure out what that meant. I explained why. I wish you would have just explained what you meant without the false accusations.
But some homeschooling parents do so with a tone of spite and isolation against anyone who would deign to impose a traditional school environment on their kids.
Maybe. I’ve got to wonder now if, like here, you see spite and vitriol where none exists.
You put pressure on everybody because you believe in your school and want to tell everybody about it, and that’s okay- it’s even your right to put pressure on everybody, apparently. But homeschoolers who firmly believe in homeschooling who resist that pressure and want to tell everybody about what they believe in are spiteful and vitriolic, I guess.
Comment by DeputyHeadmistress (February 16, 2007 @ 11:33 pm )
My point exactly. There were no “false accusations.” Did I did not say homeschooling was an acceptable option for some families? And for some children, other options are more appropriate?
I had in mind specific examples to support an option (names withheld, not having their permission to quote them). Is DHM (et al) seeing attack were none exists?
Alas, it seems open discussion here is not possible. Goodbye. (Matt 10:14)
Comment by DeknMike (February 17, 2007 @ 1:29 pm )
No, I don’t think I am seeing attack where there is none. You have used words like vitriol and spite to refer to those who, from all I can see, simply disagreed with you (or in my case, just didn’t understand your meaning and asked what you meant). The only perjorative terms here are yours. This does not speak highly of your classical school nor does it indicate that those you have differences with are the ’spiteful’ ones.
Saying that you were a lightening rod for vitriol in this discussion was indeed a false accusation, as the only comments approaching vitriolic have been yours. I also see calling what was a civil and sincere question from me ‘vitriol’ as an attack. I remain disappointed that you preferred (and continue to prefer) a stinging response to me then anything approaching a civil answer.
Wouldn’t it have just been kinder (and more persuasive) to be polite and say, “the military families I referred to who cannot homeschool because of the military are reserve families where both are deployed” or whatever the reason is? You didn’t have to reveal specific private information, just a general explanation of what you meant would have been sufficient. Is it more important to you to communicate clearly and persuasively, or to just be scathing?
What would have been so difficult about a civil explanation? What did I say that merited this level of hostility?
IN fact, your response is so bewildering that I have actually wondered if you are for real, or if you’re somebody trying to present an over the top caricature of a stereotypically arrogant classical private school proponent. If you are for real, I can see why homeschoolers who know you withdrew from your school, and I hope one day you figure it out too, before you burn more bridges.
And Matthew 10:14- I do not think it means what you think it means.
Comment by DeputyHeadmistress (February 17, 2007 @ 5:14 pm )