Tue 3 Oct 2006
I have been meaning to do this since Margaret asked about it last week.
We have continued to have our poetry colloquies (formal conversations) and I think they are a success. Poetry is a great subject for a colloquy because the more you read and discuss a poem the more it comes alive. Poetry is also a subject where too much rationalism dampens the joy. From what I understand of colloquies, they should not be teacher driven. The teacher should let the participants be the discoverers and poetry is uniquely suited to this sort of discovery. I challenge you to pick any poem and read it 5 times. You will most definitely understand more details on the 5th reading than you did on the first.
I have set up our colloquies by reading the poem and telling the children (ages 5-16) a little about the meter. Or I let them tell me what they notice about the patterns and meter. Right now we are working our way through The Classic Hundred Poems.
Chronologically we have just finished Shakespeare and are moving on to Donne.
We had lively conversations around Marlowe’s The Passionate Shepherd to his Love and Raleigh’s answer The Nymph’s Reply to the Shepherd.
Sir Patrick Spens is also a great poem for discussion.
Often I will throw out an obscure line and ask what they think it means. So far all the children have participated and Alex (5) pays close attention so that he can add something to the conversation. Even his comments are usually lucid.
I will try and work through an example of what we talk about with Shakespeare’s That Time of Year Thou Mayst in Me Behold.
That Time Of Year Thou Mayst In Me Behold
William ShakespeareThat time of year thou mayst in me behold
When yellow leaves, or none, or few, do hang
Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
Bare ruined choirs, where late the sweet birds sang.
In me thou see’st the twilight of such day
As after sunset fadeth in the west;
Which by and by black night doth take away,
Death’s second self, that seals up all in rest.
In me thou see’st the glowing of such fire,
That on the ashes of his youth doth lie,
As the deathbed whereon it must expire,
Consumed with that which it was nourished by.
This thou perceiv’st, which makes thy love more strong,
To love that well which thou must leave ere long.
This is a wonderful poem for bridging the understanding from rational to poetic knowledge. Poetry, in order to truly reach our hearts, must start with the concrete and move to the intuitive. In these 14 lines Shakespeare takes us from what we know: the dying day, the dying year, autumn, leaves etc and makes the intuitive leap to the dying life thus wedding beauty to truth. The form of the poem is Shakespeare’s own pentameter which almost seems to be some sort of physical bio-rhythm, most certainly God-given. The rhyme scheme abab cdcd efef gg. I just love that gg. My younger children have a harder time grasping all the abab stuff. It isn’t that difficult but the younger the brain the more abstract it seems. I don’t waste too much time trying to beat it in. They will get it someday.
This poem is relatively easy to catch the general meaning. The real joy is the beauty of the words. I asked the children about the line, “Bare ruin’d choirs where late the sweet birds sang.”
We all enjoy letting the little guys give us their opinions first. Sometimes they are dead on and sometimes we all get a good laugh. I threw out lots of questions in order to get to the point that our intuition is born of our observation. I am a firm believer in trusting that intuition is usually based on something. Which brings us also to the point that we need to well grounded in scripture because there is a way that seems right to man but the end there of is the way of death. It is important to learn to trust and distrust intuition.
And that is what we got out of reading Shakespeare. We became more familiar with a sonnet and we began to understand the glories and limits of intuition.
My main goal is for the children to begin to OWN the poems and enjoy them. The first time you read any poem it almost comes across as gobbedly-gook. It is hard to love something you can’t understand. As you read and discuss a poem it slowly begins to make sense. As your brain begins to find meaning in the words the beauty mysteriously appears as if in a hologram. Often I am overwhelmed when a poem begins to take on meaning and beauty. It becomes emotional.
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Thank you, I’m getting it! Actually, I am more and more amused, realizing that we do so much of what you talk about, but just don’t have official names for things. I guess whenever you are having a focused discussion can be considered a Colloquy?
We spent a whole semester having Colloquies on “Understanding the Times” it was great and we really enjoyed that time together.
I thought that there might be an actual formal pattern to such things.
Comment by Margaret in VA (October 3, 2006 @ 12:33 pm )
I have printed your intructions and placed them in my Poetry folder….along with ones from T M Moore of Breakpoint.org fame.
BTW Have you any interest in the newly published Robert Frost poem? Thoughts on the War from Home or something like that?
Dana in GA
Comment by Dana (October 3, 2006 @ 1:47 pm )
You know, Dana, I hate to say this but I am skeptical. For some reason the grad student sounds insincere to me and the story too-too. I hope I am wrong because I enjoy almost all of Frost’s poetry. He marries the ordinary to the intuitive beautifully.
Margaret,
Don’t worry, you will never find me doing anything extremely complicated.
Comment by Cindy (October 3, 2006 @ 4:38 pm )
The Classic Hundred Poems is one of my favorite anthologies. I’m very curious - what did your boys have to say about “Bare ruined choirs,where late the sweet birds sang.”? I remember a discussion about that line where we were urged to picture a cathedral or chapel, even, falling to pieces, roof caved-in, etc., with only the rafters outlined against a cold winter sky at dusk, and to compare that to the image of trees in winter, bereft of their avian choirs. It still moves me after almost 30 years. And now I’m approaching “that time of year…”
Comment by Laura D. (October 3, 2006 @ 8:29 pm )
Laura,
What I really wanted to do was share something more personal about what the children had actually said but it had been over a week since we did a colloquy because of visiting my dh. My brain just wouldn’t work.
My husband does love winter because of the trees. He loves to see the shapes and he also loves avian choirs so that outside our bedroom window you can usually hear birds singing in the trees above the feeders, even in winter.
I hope the avian choirs will keep on singing through my winter years.
Still, I called my little boys into my bedroom today to listen to a bird singing outside. They were so happily into it. They got out birdbooks and started talking about their favorite birds. Even tonight little Alex was bringing me yet another picture of his “favorite” bird. I don’t think he knows what “favorite” means.
Comment by Cindy (October 3, 2006 @ 8:56 pm )
Lovely, thank you.
Comment by Laura D. (October 3, 2006 @ 9:06 pm )
Even after 26 years, I’m amazed to find that there’s still so much to learn about you.
Comment by Tim (October 4, 2006 @ 11:30 pm )